026: Finding home again after the death of a spouse with Linda Wagner

Linda Wagner has a heart for learning and for the creative arts. She completed a PhD in education with a focus on complex learning, “later in life”. She’s worked in higher education, most recently as the Director of the Center for Learning at Seattle Pacific University, and since leaving that position continues to work with student learning on a consulting basis. Linda has also been involved in the arts community, primarily supporting writers. Among other things, she was the co-director of the Christian Writers Conference at Seattle Pacific University and has worked as an author’s agent, a freelance content development editor, and as a partner in a small publishing firm. As Linda and her husband were entered the retirement years and all they had dreamed it to be, Larry, unexpectedly died shortly after moving from Seattle to Portland. As you can imagine, this was an unimaginable loss for Linda. Join us in this episode as Linda walks us through the painful experience of losing her husband, and the slow journey to rebuild a life and a sense of home.

  • Getting my house in order, literally
  • Welcome Home!
  • Moving forward, unexpectedly
  • Residue of hope
  • We becoming Me
  • Loss of spouse, loss of space
  • The honest heart that God wants for you
  • Saying goodbye to the garage-and the coffee pot
  • Don’t not mention it

025: Keeping curious in the second half of life with Gary Barkelow

Gary has been studying and speaking on the subject of calling for 25 years. He is the author of the book, “It’s Your Call”. Founder of The Noble Heart ministry, Gary’s mission is to help people discover the life they were designed to live that brings life to others. He is also adjunct faculty at Colorado Christian University. Before starting The Noble Heart ministry, Gary was on the leadership team and a speaker with Ransomed Heart ministries for seven years. In this episode, Gary offers thoughts about the lessons he is learning about his calling during the second half of life. Join us as we discuss:

  • Connecting the dots
  • Calling and competency is not the same thing
  • Something’s coming, the stream is drying up
  • Desire to be safe, and comfortable
  • This is a great idea, but not here
  • Bias against those who are getting older: Ageism
  • Part of the letting go
  • Father to the fatherless
  • Are you about to jump off a cliff?

Recommended Resources and Contact Information

The Noble Heart


024: Finding true north when my career was grounded for 8 years with Jeff Andrechyn

Jeff Andrechyn is a Captain for American Airlines. His motto: Travel lightly, but with great purpose. He has a passion to inspire through storytelling and listening to the hearts of others wherever he finds himself – the cockpit, conferences, retreats and especially around the dinner table.

When Jeff was 46 years old, he was working as a captain for US Airways. He had two great kids and a wife he loved. Life was good. One day, Jeff was unable to see out of one eye. The doctors would diagnosis him with Ocular Migraines, which resulted in him losing his job. He would spend the next 8 years grounded, unsure of what to do next or where to turn. Join us this week as Jeff takes us on his journey of losing his job, and finding his “truth north” as a student, teacher, and father:



  • Travel lightly but with great purpose
  • How to navigate when the light goes dark
  • Transitions that sends a pilot spiraling
  • Disruptions happen, let them be hard and quick
  • Qualifying for a transition
  • Putting myself into community in a vulnerable way
  • When you’re in a hard transition, you often feel like you’re the only one…but you’re not
  • Who are you…Really?
  • Helping other get unstuck while still being stuck
  • Sometimes you have to die before you die
  • You’re going to have to learn how to navigate
  • Evaluate yourself
  • Through adversity to the stars

Contact Jeff

Facebook: @jeff.andrechyn

023: Getting unstuck in a career by finding your voice with Amy Li

After changing roles in the organization, Amy quickly realized her full potential was not being explored. She was bored and felt stuck in a dead end role, and she had no clue where to begin to change that. In this episode, Amy shares her journey through a career transition and the work she did to discover a calling and a clear purpose for her life. Amy holds a bachelors of business administration and american ethics. She has nearly completed a Masters in Psychology, and also enrolled in the school of psychology PhD program at the University of Washington. As she is navigating her new future Amy hopes to journey alongside children as they figure out who they are and who they wish to become. Join us this week as we discuss:




  • Sitting in the soul sucking corner
  • Continuing the pattern of finding jobs
  • Hiding without recognizing worth
  • Fruits of labor and leadership
  • Being seen is scary, especially when you are taught to be hidden
  • Out with the old, in with the new
  • Exposing yourself is scary, but it feels so good to be seen
  • Stories of the future
  • The fear of stepping forward alone
  • The process of spiritual purpose and calling

022: Death’s invitation to become who we’re meant to be with Dan Allender

The death of a loved one forces us to count what really matters to us. It also invites us to become who we were meant to be. In this episode, Dan Allender shares about engaging boldly with his father months before his death opening the door to the desires of his own heart as a son. Dan serves as the founding President and Professor of Counseling at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology in Seattle, Washington. Dan is also a founding member of The Allender Center, a place that specializes in training pastors, therapists, group leaders, lay counselors, and community and business leaders to understand their own stories in order to more deeply enter the lives of those they are called to love and serve. Dan travels and speaks extensively to present his unique perspective on sexual abuse recovery, love and forgiveness, leadership, Sabbath, and other related topics.


Join us this week as we discuss:

  • Transitions that call us to become who we are meant to be
  • Exhausting labor doesn’t mean you make money
  • Transition from favorable to hostile is only minor league
  • You’re going to die, and I don’t know who you are
  • Making use of prior trauma and not giving up
  • In my weaknesses, that is where I bare my strengths
  • The courage of truth
  • If it’s what your heart desires, then there is always something more you can bring
  • Wounds are the realm of over-compensation; strengths arise out of brokenness
  • Leaning into the disruption
  • To create good means you bear both death and resurrection
  • Embracing desire is the realm of foolishness
  • “Extremity introduces you to who you are.”
  • Who and what do you want to become
  • You can be afraid, but dread no moment

Recommended Resources:

To learn more about Dan Allender and his work in the world, visit

Here is a list of some of Dan’s most well known books:

The Wounded Heart

The Healing Path

How Children Raise Parents

The Intimate Mystery

Intimate Allies

To Be Told

Breaking the Idols of your Heart

Leading with a Limp


God Loves Sex


The Allender Center Podcast

The Allender Center

The Seattle School


021: Waiting with the ache of a calling for seven years sucks with Brad Thayer

What am I doing here? Where did I mess up? Is God disappointed with me? Am I really supposed to be working as a pastor? How do I make ends meet? Where’s my niche? Why was I fired? Am I sure this is my calling? Why do I keep getting “no” after “no”? Brad Thayer would be asking all of these questions and many more as he navigated many job changes, career stumbles, 37 job interviews, and great loss spread out over seven years. In this episode, Brad describes his long and painful journey toward finding work that matches his calling and purpose in life. Brad is the lead pastor at the Ballard campus of Bethany Community Church.




Join us this week as we discuss:

  • More builds character
  • A literal come to Jesus moment
  • What am I going to do now?
  • The rule of saying yes
  • Questioning the path of Ministry
  • Spiral of dark times
  • Knowing what you aren’t leads to knowing what you are
  • Each opportunity is hopeful
  • It’s coming to an end
  • Loss compounded by loss
  • You’re not ambiguous
  • The confirmation
  • The mystery package
  • This season feels like home

Contact Brad

Instagram:@bthayer – @bcc_ballard

Twitter: @bthayer – @bcc_balalrd

Website:Bethany Community Church

Episode 020: The fall that started it all with Jon DeWaal

Join us this week as Liminal Space executive Jon DeWaal discusses the life changing fall that threw not only himself, but his wife and two young children into a world of transition.




019: Following the “breadcrumbs” of a calling with Shonnie Scott

As Shonnie Scott’s role as a pastor came to a finishing point, she found herself taking a leap of faith towards new and courageous opportunities. In this episode, Shonnie shares her experience with this career transition, and how much it formed her faith and calling. Shonnie’s life-vocation is all about empowering others to flourish in their callings, which she has fulfilled through multiple “God-assignments” over the last three decades. She has served the local church professionally since 1986, most recently spending six and half years as a solo lead pastor, launching the first satellite campus of Bethany Community Church in West Seattle. Out of that experience, she continues to empower women by serving as a pastor, mentor, speaker, and spiritual director to women leaders, pastors and church planters. Because gender justice and racial justice are inseparable, she also serves as a leader of Racial Reconciliation and Justice ministry at Bethany Community Church.


Join us this week as we discuss:

  • The journey of many new transitional seasons
  • Before, during and after
  • Opening the conversation
  • Letting go of one community to grow another
  • A liminal space alive
  • Recognizing exhaustion and having time for self-care
  • Following breadcrumbs lead into a stone pathway
  • Letting yourself be uncomfortable to build courage
  • Building your toolkit with every experience
  • If the door doesn’t open, stop banging on it
  • Traveler, there is no road

Contact Shonnie


Facebook: @Shonnie.scott

Instagram: @shonniescott

018: Finding yourself after being fired from your job with Hien DeYoung

Being fired from the job you love is devastating. It is one of the most challenging career transitions a person will go through. And it’s what happened to our guest, Hien DeYoung. Hien’s passion is developing, empowering and inspiring people so they can fulfill their business mission. This is expressed in her work as head of HR, executive coach, and researcher of executive women’s leadership journeys. Her most often used tools are empathy, educated insight, and deep curiosity. Hien is a SHRM credentialed HR executive, and certified executive coach from the Hudson Institute of Coaching. For 20 years she had the privilege of working with CEOs and Founders in head of HR roles building startup and early stage companies that were able to raise $300m in venture funding including an IPO. Her executive and corporate officer experience enables relevant context and insights for her work with CEOs and Executives.

Join us this week as we discuss:

  • Being fired after climbing her “professional Everest”
  • The emotional and mental anguish of feeling betrayed
  • Leading people is a different piece of management
  • Moving through a transition from the future perspective
  • Emotional, spiritual and financial struggle
  • Vacation forces a new environmental transition to recovery
  • Beginning to research and listen: finding her herself and her courage through other women’s stories
  • Baby boomer women are pioneers
  • Breaking into the boys club
  • Recognizing the missing piece after a career transition
  • Success doesn’t come from a degree, it’s about character and courage
  • The importance of taking a leap of faith
  • Transition is a forward momentum, with several steps

Hien DeYoung’s Contact Info

DeYoung Executive Coaching & Consultancy, LLC


LinkedIn:Hien DeYoung


017: How to guide your career transition with Ron Carucci

Ron is co-founder and managing partner at Navalent, working with CEOs and executives pursuing transformational change for their organizations, leaders, and industries. He has a thirty year track record helping executives tackle challenges of strategy, organization and leadership. He is a regular contributor to the Harvard Business Review, where Navalent’s work on leadership was named one of 2016’s management ideas that mattered most. He is also a regular contributor to Forbes, and a two-time TEDx speaker. His work’s been featured in Fortune, CEO Magazine, Inc., Business Insider, MSNBC, Business Week, Smart Business, and thought leaders. He also serves as the Chairman of the Board of Trustees at Liminal Space, the organization responsible for this podcast. In this episode, Ron discusses the need to intentionally guide a career transition and the importance of stewarding a body of work from your life. Join us this week nas we discuss:

    • Transitioning through your 20’s, 30’s and 40’s
    • Keeping your life stable through panic
    • There are digital guns pointed at you
    • Making sure your metrics are worthy of working toward
    • How many faces have you mentored
    • Taking a step out of a career path and looking into your likes
    • The work to find work is a lot of work
    • Great careers and dreams are a risk
    • How do you….Liminal Space upcoming Workshops
    • Separating the job from the career
    • The worst isn’t quitting and leaving, its quitting and staying
    • Recognizing the career transition and mapping your way through it
    • Recognizing that you have options during a transitional period
    • Changing jobs can be lateral, and that’s okay
    • Keeping your wanderlust under control

Social Media

Company: Navalent



Twitter: @RonCarucci


Upcoming Workshops

Launch your job search  

Delivering a WOW job interview

Rising Together

Recommended Resources

Rising to Power: The Journey of Exceptional Executives

Leading Transformation: An Owners Manual