028: How career transitions affect your identity and sense of purpose with Al Erisman

Al Erisman is a writer, speaker, and board member for multiple organizations. He is also the executive editor of Ethix magazine ( In 2017, he completed 17 years as Executive in Residence in the School of Business, Government, and Economics at Seattle Pacific University, where he taught both graduate and undergraduate courses in business, ethics, and technology. He remains on emeritus status at SPU. From 1969-2001 Al was at The Boeing Company, beginning as an applied mathematics researcher. During his last 11 years at Boeing he was the director of R&D for technology and mathematics, managing a staff of 250 computer scientists, mathematicians, and engineers. During this episode, Al takes us on his journey through various career and life transitions. Join us as we discuss:

  • I wonder what it’ll be like in 20 years
  • Technology and the world around us
  • Pretty vulnerable and pretty ready
  • Good guys and bad guys and the contribution to both
  • Free to say what I needed to say
  • Tough seasons before great opportunity
  • When you’re in the midst of it
  • The questions
  • Wanting to be constantly learning
  • Preparation for departure
  • It’s for more than just a paycheck
  • Which is more important: this or this?
  • The only problem with working in 1000 different dimensions
  • The lesson of yes
  • You are in the real world
  • Purpose and Meaning: Here’s the link

Recommended Resources



Theology of Work  

027: From victim to hero while married to an alcoholic with Ruth Seidel

Ruth Seidel is a pastor at Bethany Community Church North in Shoreline, WA. She is fiercely kindhearted and offers a deep well of wisdom to those she walks through life with. One of her passions is serving others through Al-Anon,an organization that comes alongside individuals living with the disruption caused by a loved one who is struggling with alcoholism and addiction. During this episode, Ruth walks us through her own story as a wife and mother and living with an alcoholic husband. Her transition is about the journey from being the victim to becoming the hero of her story. Join us as we discuss:

  • U-Turn career change
  • Transition from victim to hero
  • Figuring and fixing addiction
  • Timer Set; ready to grieve
  • The other life of church basements
  • We’re not like you
  • This has nothing to do with me
  • I’ve said this 1000 times
  • Honestly, we’re selfish people, but grateful
  • We’re not going to be like them
  • Don’t be terminally unique
  • This life also matters
  • There is hope and I’m not alone

Recommended Resources

Al Anon

Contact Ruth

Company: Bethany Community Church North




026: Finding home again after the death of a spouse with Linda Wagner

Linda Wagner has a heart for learning and for the creative arts. She completed a PhD in education with a focus on complex learning, “later in life”. She’s worked in higher education, most recently as the Director of the Center for Learning at Seattle Pacific University, and since leaving that position continues to work with student learning on a consulting basis. Linda has also been involved in the arts community, primarily supporting writers. Among other things, she was the co-director of the Christian Writers Conference at Seattle Pacific University and has worked as an author’s agent, a freelance content development editor, and as a partner in a small publishing firm. As Linda and her husband were entered the retirement years and all they had dreamed it to be, Larry, unexpectedly died shortly after moving from Seattle to Portland. As you can imagine, this was an unimaginable loss for Linda. Join us in this episode as Linda walks us through the painful experience of losing her husband, and the slow journey to rebuild a life and a sense of home.

  • Getting my house in order, literally
  • Welcome Home!
  • Moving forward, unexpectedly
  • Residue of hope
  • We becoming Me
  • Loss of spouse, loss of space
  • The honest heart that God wants for you
  • Saying goodbye to the garage-and the coffee pot
  • Don’t not mention it

025: Keeping curious in the second half of life with Gary Barkelow

Gary has been studying and speaking on the subject of calling for 25 years. He is the author of the book, “It’s Your Call”. Founder of The Noble Heart ministry, Gary’s mission is to help people discover the life they were designed to live that brings life to others. He is also adjunct faculty at Colorado Christian University. Before starting The Noble Heart ministry, Gary was on the leadership team and a speaker with Ransomed Heart ministries for seven years. In this episode, Gary offers thoughts about the lessons he is learning about his calling during the second half of life. Join us as we discuss:

  • Connecting the dots
  • Calling and competency is not the same thing
  • Something’s coming, the stream is drying up
  • Desire to be safe, and comfortable
  • This is a great idea, but not here
  • Bias against those who are getting older: Ageism
  • Part of the letting go
  • Father to the fatherless
  • Are you about to jump off a cliff?

Recommended Resources and Contact Information

The Noble Heart


024: Finding true north when my career was grounded for 8 years with Jeff Andrechyn

Jeff Andrechyn is a Captain for American Airlines. His motto: Travel lightly, but with great purpose. He has a passion to inspire through storytelling and listening to the hearts of others wherever he finds himself – the cockpit, conferences, retreats and especially around the dinner table.

When Jeff was 46 years old, he was working as a captain for US Airways. He had two great kids and a wife he loved. Life was good. One day, Jeff was unable to see out of one eye. The doctors would diagnosis him with Ocular Migraines, which resulted in him losing his job. He would spend the next 8 years grounded, unsure of what to do next or where to turn. Join us this week as Jeff takes us on his journey of losing his job, and finding his “truth north” as a student, teacher, and father:



  • Travel lightly but with great purpose
  • How to navigate when the light goes dark
  • Transitions that sends a pilot spiraling
  • Disruptions happen, let them be hard and quick
  • Qualifying for a transition
  • Putting myself into community in a vulnerable way
  • When you’re in a hard transition, you often feel like you’re the only one…but you’re not
  • Who are you…Really?
  • Helping other get unstuck while still being stuck
  • Sometimes you have to die before you die
  • You’re going to have to learn how to navigate
  • Evaluate yourself
  • Through adversity to the stars

Contact Jeff

Facebook: @jeff.andrechyn

023: Getting unstuck in a career by finding your voice with Amy Li

After changing roles in the organization, Amy quickly realized her full potential was not being explored. She was bored and felt stuck in a dead end role, and she had no clue where to begin to change that. In this episode, Amy shares her journey through a career transition and the work she did to discover a calling and a clear purpose for her life. Amy holds a bachelors of business administration and american ethics. She has nearly completed a Masters in Psychology, and also enrolled in the school of psychology PhD program at the University of Washington. As she is navigating her new future Amy hopes to journey alongside children as they figure out who they are and who they wish to become. Join us this week as we discuss:




  • Sitting in the soul sucking corner
  • Continuing the pattern of finding jobs
  • Hiding without recognizing worth
  • Fruits of labor and leadership
  • Being seen is scary, especially when you are taught to be hidden
  • Out with the old, in with the new
  • Exposing yourself is scary, but it feels so good to be seen
  • Stories of the future
  • The fear of stepping forward alone
  • The process of spiritual purpose and calling

022: Death’s invitation to become who we’re meant to be with Dan Allender

The death of a loved one forces us to count what really matters to us. It also invites us to become who we were meant to be. In this episode, Dan Allender shares about engaging boldly with his father months before his death opening the door to the desires of his own heart as a son. Dan serves as the founding President and Professor of Counseling at The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology in Seattle, Washington. Dan is also a founding member of The Allender Center, a place that specializes in training pastors, therapists, group leaders, lay counselors, and community and business leaders to understand their own stories in order to more deeply enter the lives of those they are called to love and serve. Dan travels and speaks extensively to present his unique perspective on sexual abuse recovery, love and forgiveness, leadership, Sabbath, and other related topics.


Join us this week as we discuss:

  • Transitions that call us to become who we are meant to be
  • Exhausting labor doesn’t mean you make money
  • Transition from favorable to hostile is only minor league
  • You’re going to die, and I don’t know who you are
  • Making use of prior trauma and not giving up
  • In my weaknesses, that is where I bare my strengths
  • The courage of truth
  • If it’s what your heart desires, then there is always something more you can bring
  • Wounds are the realm of over-compensation; strengths arise out of brokenness
  • Leaning into the disruption
  • To create good means you bear both death and resurrection
  • Embracing desire is the realm of foolishness
  • “Extremity introduces you to who you are.”
  • Who and what do you want to become
  • You can be afraid, but dread no moment

Recommended Resources:

To learn more about Dan Allender and his work in the world, visit

Here is a list of some of Dan’s most well known books:

The Wounded Heart

The Healing Path

How Children Raise Parents

The Intimate Mystery

Intimate Allies

To Be Told

Breaking the Idols of your Heart

Leading with a Limp


God Loves Sex


The Allender Center Podcast

The Allender Center

The Seattle School


021: Waiting with the ache of a calling for seven years sucks with Brad Thayer

What am I doing here? Where did I mess up? Is God disappointed with me? Am I really supposed to be working as a pastor? How do I make ends meet? Where’s my niche? Why was I fired? Am I sure this is my calling? Why do I keep getting “no” after “no”? Brad Thayer would be asking all of these questions and many more as he navigated many job changes, career stumbles, 37 job interviews, and great loss spread out over seven years. In this episode, Brad describes his long and painful journey toward finding work that matches his calling and purpose in life. Brad is the lead pastor at the Ballard campus of Bethany Community Church.




Join us this week as we discuss:

  • More builds character
  • A literal come to Jesus moment
  • What am I going to do now?
  • The rule of saying yes
  • Questioning the path of Ministry
  • Spiral of dark times
  • Knowing what you aren’t leads to knowing what you are
  • Each opportunity is hopeful
  • It’s coming to an end
  • Loss compounded by loss
  • You’re not ambiguous
  • The confirmation
  • The mystery package
  • This season feels like home

Contact Brad

Instagram:@bthayer – @bcc_ballard

Twitter: @bthayer – @bcc_balalrd

Website:Bethany Community Church

Episode 020: The fall that started it all with Jon DeWaal

Join us this week as Liminal Space executive Jon DeWaal discusses the life changing fall that threw not only himself, but his wife and two young children into a world of transition.




019: Following the “breadcrumbs” of a calling with Shonnie Scott

As Shonnie Scott’s role as a pastor came to a finishing point, she found herself taking a leap of faith towards new and courageous opportunities. In this episode, Shonnie shares her experience with this career transition, and how much it formed her faith and calling. Shonnie’s life-vocation is all about empowering others to flourish in their callings, which she has fulfilled through multiple “God-assignments” over the last three decades. She has served the local church professionally since 1986, most recently spending six and half years as a solo lead pastor, launching the first satellite campus of Bethany Community Church in West Seattle. Out of that experience, she continues to empower women by serving as a pastor, mentor, speaker, and spiritual director to women leaders, pastors and church planters. Because gender justice and racial justice are inseparable, she also serves as a leader of Racial Reconciliation and Justice ministry at Bethany Community Church.


Join us this week as we discuss:

  • The journey of many new transitional seasons
  • Before, during and after
  • Opening the conversation
  • Letting go of one community to grow another
  • A liminal space alive
  • Recognizing exhaustion and having time for self-care
  • Following breadcrumbs lead into a stone pathway
  • Letting yourself be uncomfortable to build courage
  • Building your toolkit with every experience
  • If the door doesn’t open, stop banging on it
  • Traveler, there is no road

Contact Shonnie


Facebook: @Shonnie.scott

Instagram: @shonniescott